Paid for an item and it's not shipping. Assuming I got scammed. Any way to refund?

Noah Funk's Avatar

Noah Funk

07 Sep, 2017 04:17 PM

Ordered a hardware wallet from bitcoinware.net two weeks ago and it hasn't shipped. Can't get an email response and website chat is boilerplate.

Best case scenario its just an overwhelmed one man operation with terrible customer support, worst case it's not even a real company.

Anyways, this was my first time using GoCoin and it worked great - I even reached out to bitcoinware to thank them for a pleasant ordering experience and of course never heard back...

Is there any way to initiate a refund on my end or somehow cancel the transaction?

Does GoCoin vet it's users in any way? Is there any way to confirm that this is an actual business account?

Thanks very much for your time.

  1. Support Staff 1 Posted by GoCoin DevTeam on 07 Sep, 2017 04:21 PM

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    Please provide us with an invoice_id or the payment address and we will investigate.

  2. 2 Posted by Noah Funk on 07 Sep, 2017 04:31 PM

    Noah Funk's Avatar

    Wow, thank you so much for your prompt response.

    Order #3587.

    Sent $190.35CAD of LTC (3.1074) to LYAL4Mb64GudZ1HeAqFXMe8Ep3dx6KMjVT.

    Looks like it was received
    <https://live.blockcypher.com/ltc/address/LYAL4Mb64GudZ1HeAqFXMe8Ep3dx6KMjVT/>
    and sent on to LaYXrDF4LgHv42q3Cta7YxrGbMdyjj9DR1
    <https://live.blockcypher.com/ltc/address/LaYXrDF4LgHv42q3Cta7YxrGbMdyjj9DR1/>
    .

    I'm sure you will understand this better than me. Again this is my first
    time using GoCoin and I'm pretty new to all this.

    Thanks again for your time.

  3. Support Staff 3 Posted by julien on 07 Sep, 2017 08:48 PM

    julien's Avatar

    Hello,

    We tracked the invoice in our system and it is showing as complete. This means that the merchant should be completing the order as required.

    Our compliance team has reached out them to make sure they will be doing so. We will keep you updated with what we learn.

    -Julien

  4. 4 Posted by Noah Funk on 12 Sep, 2017 10:25 PM

    Noah Funk's Avatar

    Hi Julian!

    Did you ever manage to get in touch with Bitcoinware?

    I have no returned emails or order updates beyond the initial confirmation.
    No reason to even believe they even exist.

    Does GoCoin have a vetting process for merchants when they register?

    Is there any type of insurance for situations like this? Or can merchants
    only issue refunds? Does the payment go into a transitory account before
    it's cleared to the merchant or something?

    This is my first experience paying for something with crypto. Bit confused.
    Thanks very much for your time,
    Noah

  5. Support Staff 5 Posted by julien on 13 Sep, 2017 05:05 PM

    julien's Avatar

    Hi Noah,

    We are very concerned to hear this. Bitcoinware has been a merchant of ours for over two years now and we have never received any similar messages to yours.

    They have all the appropriate documentation on file also so we have no reason to believe they are not a real company. At this time we are working on getting a resolution back from them regarding this order. Hopefully this will happen soon.

    We will keep you updated as this progresses.

    -Julien

  6. Support Staff 6 Posted by julien on 13 Sep, 2017 07:23 PM

    julien's Avatar

    Hi Noah,

    Can I ask what was the product that you purchased on Bitcoinware?

    -Julien

  7. 7 Posted by Noah Funk on 03 Oct, 2017 05:53 PM

    Noah Funk's Avatar

    Hey Julien,

    Wondering if there is any update from Bitcoinware, or any further steps I
    can take with you and GoCoin?

    I am assuming I got scammed. A month and no order update, replies to
    emails, and now silence on your end?

    Overall a pretty discouraging experience.

    On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Noah Funk <[email blocked]> wrote:

    > Hi Julian. Did you ever hear back from Bitcoinware?
    >
    > Can you advise me of any further steps or is this the end of the line?
    >
    > Thanks very much for your time hope you are well.
    >
    >
    > On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Noah Funk <[email blocked]> wrote:
    >
    >> Hey Julian. I ordered a single Trezor:
    >>
    >> https://bitcoinware.net/3911201/orders/a6e6e7ff079167b2e14842fe119eef54
    >>
    >> Let me know if I can provide anything else.
    >>
    >> Thanks again for your time. Really appreciate it.
    >>
    >>
    >> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 12:23 PM, julien <[email protected]
    >> com> wrote:
    >>

  8. Support Staff 8 Posted by julien on 03 Oct, 2017 08:36 PM

    julien's Avatar

    Hi Noah,

    I had actually sent you a few emails via this ticket. Did you not see them?

    One of the questions I had was what the product you purchased on the site was. Can you let me know that?

    We have let Bitcoinware know that if this issue is not addressed we will be placing a hold on their ability to receive payments.

    -Julien

  9. 9 Posted by Noah Funk on 03 Oct, 2017 09:02 PM

    Noah Funk's Avatar

    Not sure what's up with the formatting. Thanks for your time.

  10. 10 Posted by Noah Funk on 03 Oct, 2017 09:28 PM

    Noah Funk's Avatar

    Also I noticed that you said earlier "Bitcoinware has been a merchant of
    ours for over two years now and we have never received any similar messages
    to yours."

    Bitcoinware scam
    <https://www.google.ca/search?q=bitcoinware+scam&rlz=1C1PRFI_enCA763CA763&oq=bitcoinware+scam&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.1527j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
    has a lot of results. Most of their Facebook activity is complaints. The
    bottom line is it's my fault for not vetting them myself, but I do find it
    curious that you have never gotten a complaint.

  11. 11 Posted by Noah Funk on 03 Oct, 2017 09:28 PM

    Noah Funk's Avatar

    I mean; I ordered a month ago and have got 0 response. That's about as bad
    as it gets.

  12. 12 Posted by Noah Funk on 03 Oct, 2017 09:30 PM

    Noah Funk's Avatar

    Did you ever actually get a reply from them? When is the last time you
    actually had contact?

  13. Support Staff 13 Posted by julien on 04 Oct, 2017 05:28 AM

    julien's Avatar

    Thank you for directing us to the results you found. We take these matters seriously and are indeed in a full investigation.

    I did see a response that there was going to be someone getting back to you on this order however that was a couple weeks ago now.

    I have given them a final warning to take action and if nothing is done we will turn their account off.

    -Julien

  14. 14 Posted by Noah Funk on 08 Oct, 2017 08:07 PM

    Noah Funk's Avatar

    Can you please forward the response from Bitcoinware to you, to me?

    I am finding this all very curious. I am interested because I've lost
    money, but furthermore this is my first time actually using Bitcoin to
    purchase something. It's been a total failure, and I want to learn as much
    as I can about it.

    So GoCoin doesn't have a reliable vetting system in place, nor is there a
    system for guaranteeing service (like holding transactions in escrow until
    an item ships), and there is also no refunds on your part?

    How much did GoCoin make off this transaction? Honestly starting to look a
    bit scammy also.

    Can't find a compelling reason to purchase anything with crypto again
    really. Disappointing because I do hold various crypto for speculative
    purposes, but always hoped that there was a real use case beyond
    speculation. After this experience I certainly can't recommend using crypto
    to purchase anything through GoCoin. Curious if other providers are as
    unreliable.

    I am drafting a post on this experience and hope that you can answer some
    of these questions.

    Thanks as always for your time,
    Noah

  15. Support Staff 15 Posted by julien on 09 Oct, 2017 06:43 PM

    julien's Avatar

    Hi Noah,

    Thank you for your thoughts on this and being honest about your experience. Hopefully I can help answer some of your questions and concerns.

    As I mentioned previously, Bitcoinware has been a merchant of ours for a couple years and we have never received a complaint about their business. Therefore we had no reason to believe that they were not fulfilling their orders as promised. All of our merchants are vetted heavily and we even updated our requirements to add even further vetting.

    GoCoin has a 1% transaction fee for each completed invoice.

    Because of this ongoing and unsolved issue, as we said we would, we have disabled their account. This means no new invoices can created. The lack of response and resolution beyond their first acknowledgement, has led us to this measure.

    It really is such a shame that this was your first experience with a Crypto purchase. Our system processes thousands of invoices a day without issue and we our proud of the merchants using our services. However, these things can happen unfortunately and answers are not always immediately found.

    What we can hope for now, is that the disabling of the account prompts action on the merchants part and we can request this refund be handled.

    Also, due to our privacy policy, we can not share exact messaging between a merchant and our team, to the customer.

    Please let me know if we can help with anything in the meantime while we wait for their response.

    -Julien

  16. Support Staff 16 Posted by julien on 11 Oct, 2017 05:55 PM

    julien's Avatar

    Hi Noah,

    The merchant did respond after we disabled the account. They are making an effort to find a resolution.

    Thank you for your patience

    -Julien

  17. 17 Posted by Noah Funk on 12 Oct, 2017 11:03 PM

    Noah Funk's Avatar

    I sent them an address: LNYTCqpWdDawPN8FKpU6CoLuFtxErWGnSn
    <https://live.blockcypher.com/ltc/address/LNYTCqpWdDawPN8FKpU6CoLuFtxErWGnSn/>

  18. Support Staff 18 Posted by GoCoin DevTeam on 12 Oct, 2017 11:38 PM

    GoCoin DevTeam's Avatar

    Hi Noah

    Bitcoinware created the refund and we just paid it out.

    Sorry this was such a painful experience for you.

    txid: 29bfeb31961af9f7970163ba7e18d4ecdc6c235efb51f98787a684b0dbc72625

  19. GoCoin DevTeam closed this discussion on 12 Oct, 2017 11:38 PM.

  20. Noah Funk re-opened this discussion on 14 Oct, 2017 07:05 PM

  21. 19 Posted by Noah Funk on 14 Oct, 2017 07:05 PM

    Noah Funk's Avatar

    Received. Thank you for all your help. Very much appreciated.

    Still curious what happened, and what happens now?

    Is it just back to business as usual with Bitcoinware now that this has
    been 'resolved'?

    Any explanation provided? I am certainly happy with a refund but what I
    really wanted was a hardware wallet. Are they out of stock, out of
    business, etc?

  22. Support Staff 20 Posted by julien on 16 Oct, 2017 08:50 PM

    julien's Avatar

    Hi Noah,

    We are working with Bitcoinware to hopefully avoid issues like this in the future and learned why this happened.

    We have not received an explanation from the merchant.

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